Exploring Mobility and Exercise
Kara Wada, MD: Welcome back everyone, and welcome to our new listeners. This is the Becoming Immune Confident Podcast, and my name is Dr. Kara Wada. I'm a board certified pediatric and adult allergy immunology lifestyle medicine doc, certified life coach and autoimmune patient. And I love bringing guests onto the show that help us think about our health in all sorts of different ways, and I'm so excited to welcome Sammy Wilson. She is joining us all the way from the UK. She is from Pocket PT. She's a movement and mobility coach. She has a BCS in Sports and Exercise Science and a qualified level three personal trainer.
She's also a retired elite athlete. She used to compete for the Great Britain Artistic Swim team and has since been navigating staying mobile while spending so much time at a desk. Now that sounds very familiar to me. Her job is to help people who sit at a desk all day long, getting achy and lethargic to move more to feel energized and ultimately become happier.
Thank you so much for joining me, Sammy. I'm glad we were able to make the time zone changes work and to connect today.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Kara Wada, MD: I would love to hear how you found yourself in this area of expertise and work that you're doing.
How Sammy became a movement and mobility coach
Sammy Wilson: Sure. Okay. So yeah, it actually started out my sort of journey in the health and fitness industry, as you mentioned, so I used to be an elite synchronized swimmer, and I did that full-time. And I'm sure you can imagine, it was really hard work. It was like 45 to 50 hours a week of really intense exercise. It was so much. Yeah. That's more than most people's full-time job, isn't it?
Yeah. So hard, so physically and also mentally hard. There's always a thing of I wanna stay on the team, that kind of thing. Yeah, really challenging time. I retired from that and pretty much went straight into just a series of like desk jobs. So I just sat down all day, like at a computer doing desk work basically.
And pretty, pretty soon actually, it didn't take long, I started getting a load of like really bad lower back pain and for actually quite a long time I was so confused, as I'm sure you can imagine, like I was like, I've been doing all this really intense training. And now I've stopped doing it.
So my life is comparatively like a lot easier, right? I'm not doing anything. Why am I now getting an injury? I was like, what's going on?
Kara Wada, MD: Doesn't make sense?
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, and like mentally as well. Like obviously I've been through all this pressure through competing elite sport and now like I was actually feeling the effects of mental health as well because just by feeling like drained all the time, never in a good place. And this pain, it was just really not good.
This is a bit embarrassing actually, but I, it actually took me, I saw like multiple physios and all of them told me that it was because I was lacking like strength and mobility and the embarrassing thing is that I never believed any of them.
Yeah, I was like "Guys look at me. I'm like an elite athlete, like I'm doing CrossFit now. I was like doing synchronized swimming for my country. Like I don't think it's my strength and mobility that's a problem here guys. And it took me probably about four or five different like physios and like professionals before I was like, maybe I'll just try what they're saying.
And I did and I tried. Because I was, as I mentioned, I was doing CrossFit at the time, so I was doing loads of strength workouts. So I was really strong and fit. But I started just trying different things, so like little smaller exercises, like your deep core stability stuff like twisting.
I actually tried stuff like Zumba. And like Pilates, like all different stuff. Yeah, it was like fun as well. But you know what, it did actually help so much with my back pain. Another thing was just moving throughout the day.
So even though I was doing this really hard exercise in the evening and in the morning, I was like swimming, CrossFitting. I did still spend nine hours, just sat on my backside doing work. So just getting up throughout the day that helped me so much.
The impact of movement
Sammy Wilson: And the reason I got into the industry is because I realized it took me so long to realize what the solution was, and I had pretty intense back pain for close to 10 years. So I'm on a bit of a mission here to help other people realize, hopefully a lot sooner, realize what the problem is so simple. It's simply just movement. You need to move more throughout the day and in the correct ways because it can make such, such a big difference to just your life, like your wellbeing, your happiness.
Like things just being like free of like aches and pains, having more energy, it makes such difference to everything.
Kara Wada, MD: I often wonder as I'm sitting in the office seeing patients on my clinical days, at times I'm sitting for an hour or so talking with a patient. I'm incredibly lucky that I get to have that amount of time, but I sometimes wonder what it would be like if we could have visits where we go for a little walk instead of like actually just sitting in the exam room where we could be out in nature and moving around rather than sitting in these uncomfortable chairs.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, I know. That'd be so much better. And that's the key. Yeah. Why do you wanna sit down in an office and have a meeting? Just get up and have a walking meeting. That'd be so much better for us.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. I've attempted to try to do that with some of our like Zoom type meetings now that we're in this like evolving, where's the middle ground from everything being virtual to in real life to virtual and now this in between.
What I've realized is our neighborhood has a little area where I don't get enough service to stay on the Zoom call.
Sammy Wilson: Oh, no.
Kara Wada, MD: It's interesting with sometimes the solutions have a few more little hiccups or like bumps along the way, but totally worth it.
Sammy Wilson: Of course. Carrying your laptop around
Moving the right way with desk jobs
Kara Wada, MD: So you were mentioning moving in the right ways, in addition to just moving throughout the day. How, like, how could this show up? What could this look like for us in these jobs where we are sitting behind a desk using our brain power, but not really moving our body?
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. So that comes into just doing the most variety of different things that you possibly can. So a lot of people are like I'm gonna start my house journey, whatever it's for. Whether it's for they wanna get stronger or they wanna lose weight or whatever it is, they'll be like "I'm gonna pick one thing and I'm gonna go hard at it".
They might be like, "I'm gonna run 5K every day and I'm gonna just run". You're basically moving in one plane of movement and your body's used to doing the same things. And what that's gonna create is your body's gonna have very specific strengths and then also weaknesses. So for me, I was lifting weights and that kind of thing, but I lacked any of the sort of twisting movements, for example.
So that's why it's so important to just see such a mix of different exercises, as much as you can. And that's also so good for like boredom as well, right? I dunno if you've ever tried an exercise program where you just get so bored, you're doing the same thing every day and you just wanna quit, don't you?
Variety of movements
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah, I've noticed kind of some seasonal variation in my workouts. Like I live in an area that has four seasons and I am not particularly fond of going out when it's real cold and damp.
And so I have a Peloton like stationary bike, and I enjoy that. But I do realize that if I just do that all the time, if I don't mix it up with some of the other strength or yoga or other things, I get too tight in my hamstrings.
I get some of these other like imbalances that just. I may feel stronger and my pants may be fitting a little better, but overall I have noticed some need for that variability as well.
Shaking it up.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, it is.
It's just so important when you think about exercising, think of your whole body as like a unit, right?
And if you neglect some parts of it, the whole thing's not gonna work in the end. That's when you're so much more likely to get an injury. If you're just doing the same thing all the time, you really need to get that balance. And yeah, different types of mobility.
What is mobility
Sammy Wilson: So I'll clarify here, when I say mobility, a lot of people think I just mean stretching. Mobility to me is it encompasses, it like combines like movement training where you're moving your body with that strength training as well. So you're building that strength through the different positions that your body's getting into.
So that's more just functional for life. The more you do that, the more you can move your body in the ways that it's designed to, right? Like the way your joints should be moving the more likely you are to just feel energetic and just free just every day in your life.
Kara Wada, MD: That all sounds great.
Sammy Wilson: Sounds fun, doesn't it?
Kara Wada, MD: We were talking just a little bit before we hit record about some of my misadventures in fitness over the years. And some of the ways that the fitness industry dovetailed with diet culture in a lot of ways now of these P90X and Billy Blanks like boxing things where you would engage in it for a couple of days and then you would find yourself so sore that you couldn't move, and feeling that I had to do something to the extreme and to really hurt to get benefit from it.
But maybe this isn't as beneficial as we were told from what you're saying.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. It can be if your goal is specifically to get fitter or lose weight, anything like that, it will help you achieve that. But if you are looking at doing it in long term, you are then more likely to hurt yourself even if you are just doing that.
But then you also do your movement training in between. So if you're doing a really hard, intense exercise like you're saying you're doing, work really hard, but then you said that you had a few days where you felt so sore that you didn't wanna do it again, right?
If you just get your body moving in between, that's gonna help you recover as well. So you'll then have the more energy to go back and do it again.
How exercise can help our brain
Kara Wada, MD: Amazing. And you've talked a lot about how exercise really can help our brain too. Can you tell us a little more about that?
Sammy Wilson: It can do, yes. So that's something that's really good for people that do sit down at a desk all day.
If you've got a job that's really hard, you really have to think all day. And it's those people that think they really haven't got time to get up, right? They're like, "No, I'm on such an important mission. I need to just glue myself to the screen. I need to keep going". They're the ones that most need it.
So I dunno, maybe this is an individual thing to an extent, but I always find I have the best ideas when I stop and get up and walk. I'm lucky enough, I've got a forest right behind where I live, and if I'm like at my screen, I'm having a bit of a mental block. I'm working really hard, but I'm not getting anywhere.
I just get out and just do a leap around the forest. And 99% of the time I promise it, I'm like, "Oh, I've got an idea". And like for me, another one is swimming. Like when your mind is a bit blank, when you're just looking at the bottom of the pool.
On a scientific level as well. Obviously when you exercise, it gets blood more pumping around your body and that gets the right things to your brain that can actually improve the function of it. And it's proven to it improve your memory, like your focus, your attention, all those kind of things.
So yeah. So good to get that into your workday.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah, I have two close colleagues and friends of mine that they spoke on, even like we think about the benefits of exercise and brain health and they specifically looked. There's a whole bunch of literature, for instance, on the anti-inflammatory effects of exercise with asthma. And that was what was coming to mind as you were talking about that too.
But really it has such incredible benefits. Over and beyond just the physical and of less pain, feeling stronger, more stable, not falling, not running into things as much, as well. What are your favorite types of exercises for feeling good?
Sammy Wilson: Oh, that's a good one. I'd first of all, just start. If you are currently like not doing anything, start really easy. Start small. Pick something that you know a hundred percent will be manageable. If you are like "You know what, I'm going all in for this. I am going to hit the gym every day for an hour". You'll probably do that for about two days. And then you're gonna give up, or you're gonna be so sore that you can't anymore.
So start really small, start manageable. Even if it's just moving, doing like a few exercises a few times a week. Just do that and it's just moving your body.
So my favorite kinds of like mobility exercises are ones that just use your whole body. So things like, I don't know, if you just do like a bicep curl for example, it's good. It's working your muscle. It's getting that bicep stronger. But the ones really are where your whole body's, if you do like a lunge and a twist for example, that's moving your hips, your knees, your shoulders, your back, and it's getting everything moving together as that one unit, which I think is so important.
There are ones I really like actually are ones you can literally do at your desk. So those are really cool if you are working at your desk and you don't think you've got time to get up and move around, go for a walk wherever. There's literally exercises you can do at your desk. I'll try and talk you through it if you want.
Kara Wada, MD: Yes. I'm sitting at my desk right now.
Sammy Wilson: If you're sat there, you can literally just, really very simple one, just shrug your shoulders up to your ears and then roll them back just to get that little stretch through your shoulders.
Kara Wada, MD: Oh my gosh, that feels so good.
Sammy Wilson: Even something that simple can just make you feel, can give you that like brain refresh, little bit of a release, bit more energy.
Kara Wada, MD: One of the things in the office that tends to bring me a little more stress is sometimes tackling my portal messages. Because when I open it up, I tend to have more than, I like to talk to my patients a fair bit and get updates. But then I see all the work and I'm like, ah, I think I'm gonna do that before I tackle the first message.
I think that will feel so good.
Sammy Wilson: That's a good one.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah.
Sammy Wilson: Here's a good one. Grab onto the back of your chair. Okay. Twist around and that way you just can't see the messages. They're gone. Just ignore them.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah, then.
Sammy Wilson: And you also get a stretch in your back as a bonus. There you go. Yeah, you might get some cracks there if you're a bit tight as well. But don't worry too much about those. A lot of people think that's really bad. As long as you're not trying to force it, then that's fine. Here's another one I like.
Kara Wada, MD: That's feels really good.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. You wanna stretch out your lower body. So what you can do, so you just bring one leg over so it's crossing over the other one. So bring your ankle up on top of your leg. That way you get a bit of a stretch through a glute, so your bum that you've been set on all day. And if you really wanna advance that one, you can roll your ankle around with your hand as well, so you get a nice little bit of ankle movement, bit a stretch to your butt. It's really nice . Easy to do at your desk as well.
Kara Wada, MD: Yes. What about, are there any like little other tools or things we can think about to outfit our offices that may potentially be helpful? I'm just thinking when I was pregnant I got one of those exercise balls.
The balls to sit on. As I was trying to deal with some of the aches and pains with being like, yeah, third trimester. But are there other things that we could think about as that might be helpful?
Get up and move
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, that's such a good point. So like obviously yeah, getting up and moving, that's gonna happen every, hopefully every hour, half an hour, whatever you can do.
But you're still gonna be spent the majority of time set at your desk, so you want it to be comfortable. So first of all, this is one of those things that I think is really important. If you've got the choice to invest in a chair that is good and supportive for your back. Oh, I really actually like your idea of the ball.
I've done that before and that's really good cuz it just keeps you moving, keeps your hips active. I love that. You can get those like up and down standing desks. So alternate every half an hour, stand for half an hour and then sit.
And then also your actual setup of your screen. You'll probably see I'm doing a really bad example now cuz I'm above my camera. But you wanna ideally have your Screen bang on in line with your eyes so that you're not straining your neck to look like sideways or down or up. You wanna have your arms resting, preferably about 90 degrees, where they're really comfortable.
Again, you can get like a wrist support if you find that's helpful, or the arms on your chair. Just make sure everything's like in reach as well, so you're not having to all the time like strain and just make sure it's comfortable. Preferably throughout the day, keeping your feet like quite flat on the floor.
I know I'm one of these that's so guilty of crossing my legs. But fine, if you're moving.
Kara Wada, MD: Called out.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. Was it you as well? If you're moving throughout it, it's fine, but if you're gonna have one leg crossed over all day, that's gonna create a problem. So yeah, just as neutral as you can in your work setup.
And then trying to do those movements, desk exercises or walking as often as, reasonably possible.
Kara Wada, MD: I'm still laughing because I've had multiple people scold me. Course correct. Like I have a friend who's a physical therapist that we worked in a similar office space for a while. She's ugh. And, massage therapists like other folks. Yeah.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. You are looking a bit guilty there, but you mentioned you've got some kind of a foot thing on your desk, right? And exercising.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah, a dietician friend had mentioned that they have these little like elliptical-type contraptions you can get order through Amazon or wherever for under your desk.
And I have found that is one way that has kept me from always sitting crisscross applesauce at my desk. And also helps keep my attention too yeah. Sometimes Zoom meetings it's a little easy to like, wanna be checking other things or trying to multitask, which our brain doesn't do a great job of, but this kind of helps keep me like in the zone a little easier.
Sammy Wilson: You gain back all your rally points just from doing that. That's awesome. I've never heard of those before, but would definitely recommend after you told me about that. Yeah.
Kara Wada, MD: And there's all, there's all different then they're not terribly expensive. It's definitely under a hundred dollars.
Sammy Wilson: Oh, great recommendation. Definitely get those for your office.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. I have contemplated getting one for, I have it at the home office, but I have yet to invest in one for my office- office. But I do have the standing. I was able to get the university to pay for like a standing desk and I do need to actually make use of that a little bit more.
Sammy Wilson: It's, it always some sitting setting.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. Yeah. It goes back to this idea as humans. And you touched upon it on this idea of starting simple and starting easy and sustainable is at our core as human beings, our brains want to take the easy route or the route that is like most comfortable because energy-wise, like even the little ATP that are being used, like you use less of it then that theoretically might have a survival advantage if you are able to conserve energy, but changing a behavior or, is a change. It's hard. And so if you can keep that activation energy low to start off with and then build on that, that helps incredibly.
The more you move, the more you are energized to move more
Sammy Wilson: Of course. And that will actually help you as well. I dunno if you've ever noticed this, the less you exercise, it's weird cuz as you say, like ATP-wise scientificly-wise, this doesn't make sense. But the less you exercise, the less energy you have. And I know this, I've got some examples. But the office I used to work at, those people there would always be like "I'm gonna be on it. I'm gonna go to the gym this week".
And I actually noticed that a little sort of experiment thing in my head that when we had days where we were just sat down all day and there was a lot of work, we didn't have time to get up and do proper movement breaks. They were much more likely to, at the end of the day, be like, "Nah, I'm too tired. I'm not going to the gym".
Whereas if we had actually had quite an active day and had to pack a lot of boxes, be on our feet, that kind of thing, you think logically they'll be more tired, right? Cuz you've used more energy. But that was, it was the opposite. The more you move, the more you're in a good mood for a start. So that really helps if you're in a good mood, energized, you actually feel like getting up and doing more of it. And physically as well. So the way like your joints work the more you move them, the more synovial fluid they like release into them.
Basically. They secrete it. So the more you move, the easier it gets to move. It really is that simple.
Kara Wada, MD: I think that's one of the things that comes up. I so often will hear patients or clients talk about fatigue, especially folks that are dealing with conditions that have too much inflammation. So allergies or autoimmune disease, asthma, all those sorts of things. And we certainly are always thinking about, okay, or your vitamin levels are okay, your iron, all of these sorts of things. Is your thyroid okay? Vitamin D, and how is your sleep? But also movement is one of the key things I'm asking about. Are you getting some sort of movement in, because it really does have this boost.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. It's so important, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
Kara Wada, MD: It's generally this time of year is my happy time to just get out and do those laps around the park. There's a little bit of forest, not quite a full on forest. But it is so lovely too, to be able to combine that with getting out into nature and in our environment.
I say think back not when we were but our ancestors, they were outside probably 90% of the time, whereas nowadays, inside 90% of the time.
Sammy Wilson: They had good joints.
Our bodies were made to move
Kara Wada, MD: Our bodies were made to move.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, that is actually what it's designed to do. And we go against that by just sitting still all day. And the bodies aren't designed for that. And that's why as a general population, like I'd say 90% of the office I worked in are always complaining of " Oh, I'm sore and achy and tired". And that's not how it's meant to be. I think we've got into this, almost this acceptance that as you get older, as you get past and not even old, like past like 25, 30, you just can't, and accept like my body's just gonna hurt.
Oh, I'm getting old and. I'm one as well. When I was going through that phase, when I wasn't believing the physios, that I'd blame it on age. Like at the time I was probably like 26, 27, so I wasn't old. Like, I'm getting old. I'm so painful.
And it's just a thing that we're almost looking for an excuse, right? We don't want to, our brains don't wanna accept that the reason we hurt is because of something we are doing, because that makes us feel like silly, right? So our brain wants to blame it on something that we can't change. So we blame it on our age. We say it's cuz I'm old and that's just where my body is.
But that's not the case. We can change it.
Kara Wada, MD: I was quickly pulling up, I was trying to remember the name. There's a book I read during the pandemic, after hearing like an interview on the radio called Exercised and it was, it's written by an anthropologist, but they went all the way back to like our cave people, ancestors' existence, and talked about how we moved as humans and how it is so vastly different from our modern desk jobs.
So I would, if anyone is a history kind of nerd and interested in like anthropology stuff, it wasn't maybe the most exciting read, but it was really fascinating just to think about how different our modern lifestyles are as compared to what we really were built for over, centuries and millennia.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah I'd love to see someone that's done like, I don't know, can you do that when they're like that old and do, can you study their joints and see if they're like, better than ours? I'd be really curious.
Kara Wada, MD: So they did talk, if I remember correctly, they did talk about some of the, what they, the archeologists have found.
But then he also, the author is a researcher at one of the big east coast universities. I can't remember if it's Harvard or Yale or one of those, but they actually took treadmills out to these more remote areas of Africa where there are modern hunter-gatherer societies and did some studies in those populations as well and
Sammy Wilson: Right.
Kara Wada, MD: It was funny to think about dragging a treadmill out too.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. Why? I felt like they can just run on the floor.
Kara Wada, MD: I think they were looking some, at some of the biomechanical differences and things too. But yeah, exactly. In so many, probably some of the discussion of the whole running barefoot type.
Movements that have come across over every few years. I remember one of my girlfriends from college we ran cross-country when they essentially in my small school, they restarted the cross-country team my junior year. And I joked that they needed warm bodies to field the team. And so I was like, "Sure, I used to run, I'm not terribly good, but this will be fun".
But I remember one of my girlfriends, she had Some shoes that actually separated out her toes, which were always,
Sammy Wilson: Oh yeah.
Kara Wada, MD: an interesting, like aesthetic. But and I am not at all knowledgeable on whether not helpful or not.
Sammy Wilson: And they do look a bit silly, don't they? I think those kinda things, there's always like arguments both sides isn't there? Cuz obviously, we do have that modern technology that they didn't have back in the stone ages where we can design a trainer that's gonna reduce the impact on your feet and all that. And maybe they're good for different things.
If you're doing like yoga, that kind of thing. And in our modern day, if you're running on the road, you're probably gonna get glass in your foot if you never, so if you've gotta weigh pros and cons
Kara Wada, MD: Better pollution
Sammy Wilson: and, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You gotta find a, you've gotta find a happy medium, don't you?
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. I think that's what we try to explore here too, is realizing that we are modern humans, we like our creature comforts, where do we each individually make some of those decisions of, okay for me, like I'm gonna continue using my dishwasher for the time being because I have three kids and I'm not gonna spend all day at the sink, like washing dishes.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, exactly.
Kara Wada, MD: Even though, we know that some of the soaps are not the best for our gut health. Where can we make some of those, like tradeoffs and it seems like a pretty simple tradeoff to get ourselves moving a little bit more to have less pain, to have more energy and better mood.
Sammy Wilson: Yeah. You've got a really good point there, because in an ideal world, I'd say no one would work at a desk. Let's spin off computers. Let's all just walk around all day and, and move our bodies. But yeah it's exactly that compromise, realistically, that's not gonna happen.
We know most of us do need to work at computers. That's modern technology, isn't it? How the world works. But yeah, exactly that. Just doing exactly what you can, whether it's training every day or whether it's just moving, doing more desk movements, training your nutrition, whatever it is, it's just, gonna improve that healthiness of your lifestyle.
It's finding the balance.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. And I think understanding that at the end of the day, we're responsible for our own decisions and we can't necessarily make decisions for other people, but we can be responsible for our own actions. And so let's do what we can to help our health in the ways we're able to.
Sammy Wilson: Exactly. Yeah. Take the accountability for it and just, that my health is, I'm accountable for it, basically, and if I choose to do nothing about it, it's gonna be quite bad if I choose to put some time and energy into my health, then, I'm gonna feel better for it.
And it's just deciding that in your own head, if it's worth it for you, which hopefully it is, because I think, I don't think it's worth being, achy and in pain and feeling tired all the time. I don't think anyone wants that. We wanna move more, we wanna feel better.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. That's big, making that commitment to, and like the future you, as opposed to what that immediate gratification you want, which is sometimes just to sit and watch the Netflix, but maybe you can stand and do a couple lunges or some of those twists or some of the other little shoulder rules that you mentioned.
Sammy Wilson: Exactly.
Kara Wada, MD: While still watching the Netflix.
Sammy Wilson: Yes, that's exact, that's exactly what we mean by compromise, isn't it?
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. Thank you so much, Sammy. This has been delightful and I think I have some things to work on and incorporate. I'm selfishly excited. If folks want to continue to learn from you, I'm sure they are gonna wanna follow and pick up some more of these great tips and how to move more, feel better.
Where can they find you and connect with you?
Sammy Wilson: Yeah, so I've actually quite recently started a new community on Facebook in the form of a Facebook group. It's called Active Thriving Professionals. And it's, yeah, for people that spend a lot of time sat down. I go live, I share like hints and tips for does how to move better throughout the day.
So yes, definitely join that. It's called Active Thriving Professionals on Facebook. And yeah, be part of the community.
Kara Wada, MD: Awesome. We will link to that and I'm going to go quick to join. I'm pulling it up now. Oh yeah. I'll have little questions. We'll come back to that after. But thank you so much.
I'm really excited to continue. I think, one of the struggles I've had is this " On the wagon, off the wagon". And so finding ways just to have that sustainable commitment to movement is really helpful. And so thank you so much. I'm sure that it's gonna help a lot of our listeners as well.
Sammy Wilson: Oh, I really hope so. That's my goal to help people. Yeah. Have a maintainable movement pattern. So yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
Kara Wada, MD: Thank you. I hope you have a great rest of your day and we'll talk soon.
Sammy Wilson: Thank you. You too. Bye.
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