A Physician's Guide to Mastering Sleep & Behavior Change
Kara Wada, MD: Welcome back everyone to this episode of the Becoming Immune Confident podcast. My name is Dr. Kara Wada. I am a pediatric and adult allergy immunology lifestyle medicine physician. And as you know, we are really excited to bring just phenomenal guests. to have conversations with here on the podcast. And I am just thrilled to welcome another fellow, former Buckeye onto the show today, Dr. Kenneth Zweig. He is an internist at Northern Virginia Family Practice Associates, a family medicine practice providing full service concierge medicine in the Northern Virginia area. As part of NVFP's team of skilled physicians, Dr. Zweig, provides personalized preventative care that caters to the individual patient needs.
He specializes in sleeping disorders, hypertension, and the importance of behavioral changes to support overall health. In 18 years of working in various medical settings, Dr. Zweig says no healthcare setting has been as patient oriented as Concierge Internal Medicine. Dr. Zweig believes that most medical problems are caused by poor behavioral habits that have accumulated over time.
He takes a preventative approach to treatment and helps patients adopt a preventative behavioral mindset before replying to medication that could inadvertently cause other medical problems.
Well, welcome to the podcast, Dr. Ken.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. I have to say, in full disclosure, I don't know if you noticed this on my CV, but I did go to University of Michigan for undergrad, so there was a little I thought maybe you were ignoring that part, but so I get the best of both worlds. I can pick and choose depending on what happens during football so.
Kara Wada, MD: And this year definitely celebrating with the national championship. So that's super exciting.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: it was a very good year. Very happy.
Kara Wada, MD: We are recording, just having learned that your coach is going to be heading out to warmer, sunnier parts.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Ah, we figured as much he came what he needed and did what he needed do, and now he's moving on, so I understand.
Dr. Kenneth Zweig's Journey into Medicine
Kara Wada, MD: I would love to hear a little bit more about your story and how you ended up kind of in the area of medicine that you're in.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Well, in some ways it was sort of preordained. My father is an internal medicine physician in Pittsburgh, and my brother, who's about eight years older, also is an internal medicine physician. And so it was somewhat in the breeding, I think. And so I tried to avoid that and go on to my, do my own path. And all roads led me back to this. And so, which I'm thrilled for, I'm really happy that that was the case. But growing up and going to college, I really had no intention of going to medical school. I was planning on going into business and forging my own path to do something unique and different.
And the more I looked at business and the more I looked at what I liked and where I was, and I realized that medicine was, was really the right way, right way to go. And I actually did a couple of years, which I'm thrilled about in, in the business world and to just, strengthen my convictions for going to medical school and doing what I do. And I never looked back and thrilled with it. It's just, it's a wonderful career. You get to help people every day, see parts of them that you would never otherwise see, and build relationships that are. Absolutely incredible.
So, a lot of my patients, I feel like they're part of my family. I mean, they're just, I've been seeing them for so many years and gotten to know them and their families and it's wonderful.
It's a, it's a terrific career.
The Intricacies and Challenges of Primary Care
Kara Wada, MD: I have to say that was one of the things that drew me to outpatient medicine as well as that continuity of care over the longterm and really building those relationships with the different family members too.
And I, I give all of my primary care physician colleagues so much credit because you have to stay on top of all the things really.
And I mean, that was something that honestly scared me from going in and down that career path. And deciding to focus a little more in on a particular area.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Yeah. Well, it's funny you say that, I've heard that a lot and I hear that from a lot of students and residents and I teach with Georgetown and George Washington universities and I hear that from them. They don't want to have to know everything, but that's what drew me to this is I love to learn.
I love the puzzle. When I send people to specialists, most of the time, I already know what's going on. I've already figured it out. I just need the specialist to help me treat it or do a procedure or whatever it is most of the time. But I love the puzzle. I love the variety. I'd say that I have medical ADD because I, you never know what's behind door number two.
I love every part of it. And when I was doing my residency, I do a pulmonary rotation and I say, "Hey, this is what I want to do for my life." And then I do cardiology, said, "No, no, no. This is what I want to do". And I do endocrinology. I said, "This is going to be me". And instead of doing 11 fellowships, I said, "no, I'll just go into primary care."
And you do as much as you feel comfortable and as much as you want. And when you don't feel comfortable or don't feel like you can manage it, then you have all these other great specialists around you that can fill in, but I get to learn about everything and try to do as much as I possibly can, and I love it, so I really like the challenge of trying to go as deep as I can in so many fields. It's just fun to learn and see so many new and different things.
Kara Wada, MD: I think back to kind of that idea that really, when you're in an internist's office, we are trained, I'm internal Med & Peds by background, but you're trained to really put your Sherlock Holmes detective hat on and listen to that lived experience of that other human across from you and like you said, put the pieces of the puzzle together, kind of solve that mystery and help them along the way. Yeah.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Yeah, that's part of fun, is figuring out the medical mysteries, and then when you do it and you figure it out and the patients get the right treatment and get better, it's a fabulous experience.
The Role of Sleep in Overall Health
Kara Wada, MD: How did you or I guess when did you kind of find this interest in how vital sleep is in our health and in how we're feeling?
Kenneth Zweig, MD: It was an evolution over many years. When I first started in practicing in internal medicine, so many people have high blood pressure. It's just rampant and I thought, " Okay, well, I should look into this, maybe I should know as much as I possibly can about high blood pressure because this is that and diabetes and a couple other things are really the things that I see the I should know as much I can.
And so I thought, I'll try to be a little more focused on that. The more I looked at it and the more I read and we also actually, interestingly, there was a sleep clinic and a sleep medicine physician who I was actually friends with who practiced upstairs from me, who I talked to quite a bit too.
And the more I learned and looked at things, you realize that the high blood pressure, the diabetes, the depression anxiety, the obesity, the overeating, the stress, and, so many things that we see, heart disease and noncompliance, whatever it is, everything seemed to come back to sleep.
And if you did a sleep history on all these people, you were going to find something on almost everybody that, that wasn't well controlled in whatever condition it was. And the more I saw that, and the more I read about it, and the more I realized that this was such a huge impact on everything that we do, I realized that what, after a time I said, " I'm not a primary care doctor, I'm a sleep doctor, because so much of it goes back to that." And if you get good sleep, most people who get good sleep tend to feel well. you don't get good sleep, we say diet and exercise and all these other things are really important, and they are. But sleep is the foundation, because if you don't get good sleep, it's hard to exercise, it's hard to eat right and so everything else falls apart, it's hard to get yourself to do the right thing when you're tired, we all know that, and so it has to start with sleep, and so I make that an absolute prime part of my histories on everybody, I ask everybody about their sleep, I consider it one of the vital signs is the number of hours that they sleep and the quality of their sleep.
Kara Wada, MD: I mean, as you look to even in lifestyle medicine, it is one of those main six pillars that we always come back to. I had a patient just this week, I felt, oh, my heart went out to her. She's a patient who's had chronic hives for many years, but it had been pretty well controlled and she had a job change and she switched to second, kind of second, third shift.
And just kind of that shift in her schedule, nothing else in her history really jumped out as to a possible trigger as to why else her symptoms would have flared back up. But that was kind of the thing that really had changed that we think had made an impact on her immune system. And we know even from studies of how well our vaccines work, that you'll see a decrease in responsiveness if you're not getting good sleep.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Absolutely. Yeah, it really does. The whole house of cards falls and just like you said, I have a patient who exercise, swears, he exercises and eats and eats right, and I know he exercises an extraordinary amount. But he works night shifts, works from 11 till 7 I believe in the morning, and he's been doing that for years, and he is morbidly obese, and he's like, "I just can't lose the weight", and I said, " Night shift is it's really a really a hard thing", and then he shifts back on the weekends when he has the weekends off and tries to do a regular shift, regular life so that he could be friends, and it all just, it just doesn't work like that.
Our bodies aren't made for that, and so he's just really struggling with as a result of that, and that's the only thing that's off on him is his sleep. And it's not even off, he gets eight hours, he just gets them at the wrong time, and so it's probably not very good quality. And you see it time and time again, how many things that happens. And then also, when you have kids, that's the other thing that turned me over is when we had my daughter, I realized, "Oh my god, now I really get it. This makes a big difference."
Kara Wada, MD: Oh gosh, we had been on a really, a knock on wood, like a really nice stretch for a while. Our youngest is two, and he learned to climb out of his crib, but still was going to sleep okay. But this last week and a half, something switched. And he's scared to be in his room by himself. So we have I think, probably a few weeks of sorting through this where I'm going to be, have to be extra mindful about, all those different health things, because I know for me with my autoimmune condition, that really sleep is one of the bigger contributors and modifiable things that I can have an impact in how I feel.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Absolutely. Yeah,
Tips for Improving Sleep Quality
Kara Wada, MD: Say you're talking to one of your patients that is struggling with sleep, what are some of the tips or things that you are going to kind of be sharing with them?
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Probably things that I bet a lot of your listeners have already heard. Electronics are just terrible. Huge. Yeah, those are just huge and they're hard to put down. So everyone brings them with them into their bedroom. And that's okay to a degree. One thing you want to ideally, you want to not have any electronics at least a half an hour before bed, if you can.
If you are taking it into your bed, certainly no. I don't recommend having even having a TV in your bedroom, you should get it out. That's a hard thing for a lot of people to do if they've had that as a habit. But TV, the bedroom should be for sleep and not for entertainment, and so the TV shouldn't even be in there because if you walk into your bedroom and there's just a bed, your body says, "Hey, I know it's time for sleep." If you walk in there and there's a bed and there's a TV, your body thinks, "Oh, it's time for TV." And so you don't really shut off the way you should. And then the blue light from the TV also impacts you, the sound. Shows are made to be interesting, and otherwise you wouldn't watch them, and so that keeps you up, and so, it's the electronics are a big bane.
If you can, turn off the blue light setting, it's the nighttime shift on your phone, that can help. But even a little bit of light can make a difference. Even night lights we've just found is, is, is has an impact on the quality and duration of your sleep.
So having a pitch black room is really important. A comfortable room, a comfortable bed, a cool room, setting it, they found about 65 to 67 degrees makes a big difference. And two really big ones are one, keeping a very rigid sleep schedule. So, making sure that you go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time every day, including the weekends.
There's something called social jet lag, where even if you get eight hours, but shift your schedule, it's like Flying to Europe, when you, when people fly to France and then they go to bed on their schedule and sleep eight hours, you still wake up tired and they say it takes, but how many hours you cross to catch up and get back onto the schedule and feel rested again, even though you've gotten eight hours.
Well, the same thing if you don't cross time zones, but you go to bed at. Ten every night during the week, but go to bed at two on the weekends. It's like crossing four time zones. And so you might be getting eight hours, but you're going to be tired still. So keeping consistent sleep and wake time is really important.
And then the other big thing is alcohol and alcohol is a big impact on sleep. And anybody who's probably over the age of 50 knows that that has an impact on sleep more so, but really, it just impairs, even though it helps you sleep, maybe, it impairs the quality of your sleep. So you are getting more of a drug induced sleep or a passing out than you are getting the good quality sleep that you need, which is why if you drink too much, even though you may have been out for a while, you don't feel very good the next morning, but even one or two drinks can impact that.
Kara Wada, MD: I've noticed. So I don't know that I've shared a ton on the podcast. I've shared a little bit on social media, but I pretty much gave up drinking Mother's Day of last year. I've had just an occasional glass of wine here or there since that time, maybe a handful of times, if that. And I track my sleep. I have a health wearable that I track my sleep and I could see the differences on those rare occasions and how my sleep was affected. And my overall just level of energy in being away from alcohol for a prolonged period of time has really improved. More than I think, it was a hard decision to come to, right?
Because it is especially, such a part of our culture, our socialization within the mom community, there's very much this mommy wine culture of like, this is how you unwind when your kids are going bonkers. But the reality is it's a toxin, and there's no safe level. And it really, really impacts our sleep.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Yeah, I mean, if you want to have, I always say it should be a celebrant, you should have wine, wine or a beer or something like that within reason if things are good, it's somebody's birthday, you're having a celebration, you're getting together with friends on a Saturday night or whatever, yeah, okay, that's fine, be reasonable about it, that's probably not going to have a big impact, but if you're doing it every day or having it to excess, that's when it really, really matters will impact you both in the short term and the long term.
Kara Wada, MD: I think, personally, what I was seeing, especially over the course of the pandemic, was it was becoming a more regular thing with dinner each night and and with wine in particular, it's easier to pour just a little bit more. And although it wasn't to a point where, I think any of my docs would have been necessarily like, "Oh, you know, you got to stop", you know, it was no longer serving me in a way that was helpful. And so here we are.
The Art of Behavior Change for Better Health
Kara Wada, MD: My question for you, as we think about making that behavior change, what are some ways that we could approach, whether it's sticking with dry January or maybe making some of those sleep changes, how can we use behavior change science to help us?
Kenneth Zweig, MD: So, the most important thing that I always tell everybody with behavior change is make sure it comes from them. You, you and I, as, as physicians, we always want everybody to be, to be healthy, what does that mean? Being healthy, it doesn't really mean much to anybody.
Kara Wada, MD: Magic wand.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Magic wand, right, yeah, be healthy, just be healthy, I want you to be healthy, there's not really a, I've never found a really good definition for that so, but you know, it doesn't have a lot of meaning, you and I know what we think it means to us, but it doesn't have a lot of meaning to patients generally.
They have a sense of what that means, but everybody has their own definition of what it means. And so you really got to make it something in behavior change. It's got to come from them, rather than being healthy, do they want to have more energy? Do they want to feel stronger? Do they want to not have, not get sick, be well before their granddaughters' birthday or do they want to not have pain in their knees so they can pick up their grandkids?
Whatever it is, everybody has a different meaning or have, it's a different priority of what's going to motivate them better. And so it has to, you have to, as a physician, ask questions and find out what it is that motivates them. "Why are they even coming in? What are they looking to do and get out of this?"
And so that one, they have to have that motivation. And two, they have to whatever it is that you're trying to get them to do, they have to believe that they can do it and believe that if they do it, it's going to have the desired outcome, because if I tell them to go and swim 50 laps and they don't have a pool near them, well, that's kind of ridiculous.
It's not going to happen, right? And so it has to be, if it's exercise, it has to be an exercise that's convenient and easy and manageable. And that they think, "Hey, if I do this exercise, I really am going to feel better." But if they say, "no, it's going to make my knees hurt and I'm going to be more short of breath if I do that. So I'm not going to do it."
Yeah. But then that doesn't count. Then we haven't gotten to a good suggestion. So that's called self efficacy and it's really an important part of behavior change. And so it really comes from the patient themselves. You're a life coach and it's sort of a coaching type of way of going about things is trying to pull it out of them.
What do they want to do? What do they think is going to help and what are they willing to do? And whatever it is, set that bar low, set it, I tell patients, set it so low that you can't not do it. So they might have the desire to do an hour and a half of exercise because that's what they did when they were 20.
And then, so then they say, "okay, it's time for me to exercise an hour and a half. That sucks. I can't do that. I don't have time for that. Let me just check my email." But if you say, "Okay, don't do an hour and a half, do five minutes", that five minutes is five minutes more than you were doing before that.
You can do that and set it to so low that you can't say no, and then you can build from there. But I'd rather them set a low bar and hit it than a high bar and just get frustrated and keep doing whatever it is they're doing. So, and again, whether that's exercise or sleep or diet or stop smoking or stop drinking or whatever it is it really has to come from, from the patient themselves with a little guidance from me.
Kara Wada, MD: I think that's so important because especially this time of year, we are kind of coming off of New Year's resolutions and sometimes we set that bar incredibly high. And when we set it, our motivation is really high. We feel really good about it. We're psyched. But the reality is that that motivation is going to, it's a roller coaster.
It's going to go up and down. And so if you set the bar really low, as you suggested with more of a tiny habit, and you can keep showing up because it really doesn't take that much. energy to like achieve it, right. Then you do, you end up having kind of that feeling of like, "Yeah, I did that."
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Right, just getting the first step is the hardest one, right? Just getting out the door. Yeah, just putting the shoes on. It is. That's the hardest step. Once you do it, you're like, "Alright, I'm doing this. I can do this. And I arrived at five minutes. I can do another five minutes. That's not so hard." But yeah, just don't set the bar too high because, all you do is feel the same as you did before, but also guilty. Because you're probably not going to do it like you intended to.
Kara Wada, MD: One of the principles that I learned kind of through like the coaching world too, is when we do have that attempt that that we're kind of thinking of as a failure. So, one little tidbit I learned recently is it's not a FAIL, it's a first attempt in learning, which I really love that acronym, love a good acronym but also that you are not the same person that started.
You have learned from that experience, and even though it feels sometimes like you are worse off than you were before you even attempted, you're actually further along because you have that knowledge, you have that experience. You've experimented, you've tried it this way. Maybe it didn't work out as exactly as you wanted, but now you can kind of pivot a little and try something different.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I think I say is, a lot of people know the five stages of change. Well, there's the sixth stage is relapse. And it's a normal part of change, so, you make a change, you get into it, and you might do it for a couple of weeks or a couple months or whatever it is, and if you fall off the wagon, and it doesn't have to be just about drinking, it could be about anything, you fall off the wagon.
That's okay. I would say that's, none of it is just okay. It's normal. It's expected to happen. The only problem is if you don't brush yourself off and try again later on. If you just get too, so frustrated that you think you failed, then that you're not going to try it again. That's the only true failure. It's okay to relapse. It's just, the only problem is if you don't try to talk yourself into doing it again.
Kara Wada, MD: One of the things I'm thinking about is I'm gearing up to go out of town for a week and I'm really excited about it, but I also know that's going to throw me off of my typical routine. And so I'm thinking ahead about, "Okay, how am I going to get back into that routine when I get home?" Because I know for me, that has been a place where I've had trouble with relapsing when it comes, especially to exercise and kind of keeping that
into my routine.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Yeah. I've the same thing. I'm going on a ski trip with some friends that I do every year. And before I do it, I think, "Oh my God, I'm going out to altitude with these guys who are in amazing shape. I better get myself into shape and really motivates me". And so I get in really good shape and then I come back and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not, yeah, I did it. I'm good." And you sort of fall off a little bit and then it takes a little motivation a little time, first to recover, because it is tiring, but then also to, get myself back up and motivated to work out on a regular basis again. And again, that's okay. It's okay to take a break.
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah. I think about that example too. You know, so many of our listeners are dealing with inflammatory conditions, allergies, asthma, autoimmune conditions, maybe chronic fatigue, and when we have a flare up of whatever those symptoms may be, it's okay to take some rest. And then it's also okay to start back a little bit slower, aiming for those, that five minutes is better than nothing or a little stretch in there or walk or bike ride, whatever feels good can be so helpful.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Right. And not beating ourselves up for it, taking a break if you need it and, and being okay with that and being comfortable with it and being comfortable with getting back to exercise at five minutes. Again, it's definitely better than nothing and that's okay.
Just, just, it is what it is. And we tend to have great expectations and think so much of what we can do. And we all have great potential, but you got to work your way into it. And so I think really a big part of it, it's a huge part of everything in medicine is the mental aspect and being comfortable with where you are, but realizing that maybe there is, you can do a little bit better, but a little bit makes a difference, especially if you do it every day, 365 days a year.
Kara Wada, MD: Would you mind sharing, we've had a couple of guest on the show over the last few years that are practicing kind of within this direct care or concierge kind of type practice. Would you mind sharing just a little bit about how that looks and like similarities or differences to someone who maybe is seeing someone at the university, like where I work, or how that might look different from, especially from a primary care perspective.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: I was at another practice for about 16 years before this and there was a practice that I loved. And but you know, there were, it was a bit of a treadmill, we see a lot of patients didn't have a lot of time with your patients. But you know, enough time that I felt like I was able to take care of things.
And then, like is happening all over the country, our practice was bought and a lot of the efficiencies and support and things that we had in place to help me see a number of patients a day fell to the wayside and it really became untenable, unfortunately. And so I found this practice and looked into it and started here and it's been a wonderful change for me and for my family because I get to see my kid,
I get to see my wife, and I also get to spend time with my patients. I get to think about what they have, address all their issues at each visit and make sure that I can ask the question, is there anything else? And not feel terror in my heart when I ask it. And so, that's the nice thing about it is, it wasn't something that I had ever really intended to do because there is an elite aspect to it, it's an extra pay. There's an extra fee that you have to do to be on the panel. And then you limit how many people you can have. And so I, unfortunately from that standpoint, I don't like that aspect of it and I don't have the diversity that I had at my old practice. But like I said, I do get to practice medicine the way I was taught and take time with my patients and make sure I'm addressing everything the way I feel and the patients feel it should be taken care of.
So, there is something really nice about it.
Kara Wada, MD: I've had a couple of conversations with my father in law. He's not in medicine, but his mother was a general practitioner practicing kind of back in the starting in the 1950s and 60s all the way up into her 80s out in Colorado. But he remembers as a child seeing her take 45 minutes, an hour with each patient.
Sometimes, if he were a little under the weather or if it was after school, he would be hanging out in the office trying to stay out of trouble. And that model of care, to me, harkens back to kind of this ideal that is what we envisioned, I think, when we went to medical school
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Right.
Kara Wada, MD: I very much can understand, especially within primary care, how important that would be and I say that from the perspective of, like, knock on wood, I've been incredibly fortunate to be able to convince the powers that be where I am, that I need an hour for my new immunology patients. And that 15 or 20 minutes is not going to do anyone justice. But I could very well see if that weren't the case, really exploring that mode of care. Yeah.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Yeah, it's hard. Medicine has become a lot more complex. We have so many more vaccines and screening studies and so many more medications and so many more conditions, pre menstrual dysphoric, this what is it? disorder and there's all these conditions that just really didn't even exist when we went to medical school that are coming out with now.
And you have to discuss them and so medicine is just, there's so many more tests and the things that you can do and it's just become much more complex. And so it's hard to address everything in an adequate way in 15 minutes, especially when you're trying to cover everything.
There's, there are a lot of limitations. And I think that's one of the big things that people don't talk about. They talk about the costs and the limitations, and the meds and everything. But nobody really, it seems to talk about the complexity of medicine, which is, I think, a huge, huge burden on the system.
And is one that, I think needs to be addressed somehow.
Kara Wada, MD: What immediately comes to mind right alongside that is our patients are very well educated and hopefully, in the best scenarios empowered to want to know answers, to have these nuanced conversations about the risks and the benefits of potential treatments versus lifestyle. And those answers, whatever that conclusion is from those discussions. If you're really giving those discussions the due time and justice that they need, it's not a little TikTok soundbite.
It's a back and forth. It's shared decision making. And that's definitely not taken into account either back in the day, it was very paternalistic. Like here, you take this. Doctor says you do and now I I love having that back and forth with my patients, but it takes time.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: It does take time. Yeah. No, it does. And I didn't even realize how much I was missing it at my old practice until I came here and realized that I can do it. And it's just, it's fabulous. Yeah, I went into medicine is to have that connection, have that back and forth, discuss these issues and do what's right for us. That patient, not that condition, but for that patient, the way that they want it to be done and having given them the risks and benefits and having a discussion and that's the way it should be, but it is hard to find these days.
Kara Wada, MD: It truly is that human to human connection that is part of the healing in doctoring. Well, this has been a wonderful conversation, Dr. Zweig. I would love for you to share some information. Certainly, I'm sure we have listeners in the Northern Virginia area, how people can find you, how they can connect with you.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: I am at Northern Virginia Family Practice. That's the name of the practice that I'm with. And we have a website, it's NVAFamliypractice.com. So you can find me on there. I'm also on LinkedIn and I think that's the two best ways to get ahold of me.
Kara Wada, MD: Well, thank you so much. We'll make sure that those are all linked in the show notes and I'm sure we will talk again soon, but this has been really a fantastic I think a really fantastic way to wrap up January of 2024, as we're in kind of in the last week and thinking about really making this the best year that, each and every one of us can in our own way.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: That's great. Well, yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time and having me on. This was a lot of fun for me, too. So, I hope I hope this was helpful for your listeners.
Kara Wada, MD: Thank you so much. Take care.
Kenneth Zweig, MD: Thank you. Take care.
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What we do is we help women with misbehaving immune systems, reclaim control over their health while minimizing fatigue, fog, and pain, all caused from too much inflammation. So, if you are ready to have confidence and clarity around your immune system health, and a sense of certainty, knowing that you are doing the best for your health and the health of your family, hop over to immuneconfident.com for details on how we can work together. We can't wait to connect.
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You see, leaving a review is like giving us a virtual high five and it helps our podcast to reach even more people who could benefit from the valuable insights, entertainment, and inspiration we strive to provide week after week. So if you're finding value in what you hear, here's what you can do. Open up your podcast app, whether you're on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or any other platform, and give us a glowing five star review we're dedicated to bringing you the best and your feedback helps us fine tune our content to suit your interests and needs.
But, hey, don't stop there. If you have a moment leaving a few kind words in the review section goes a long way too.
Share what you love about the podcast, your favorite episodes, or how it's made a positive impact on your life. Your words, not only brighten our day, but they also encourage others to join our incredible community.
Remember every five star review and every word of encouragement counts, it's like fuel to keep us creating, innovating and striving to make your listening experience even better. So if you're up for it, show us some love by leaving us that virtual high five in the form of a five star review today.
And a huge shout out to all of you who have already taken the time to do so.
Thank you for being a part of our podcast journey and we can't wait to keep bringing you more amazing episodes in the future.
Until next time, keep shining and keep listening and keep on building that confidence in yourself and your immune system health.